![INTERVIEW - M-PHAZESPublished: The Vine, August 11, 2010.
Melbourne-based producer Mark Landon (aka M-Phazes) is a rarity in the Australian hip-hop scene. While slow to be recognised in his home country, the Gold Coast-raised beatsmith has risen to become the first Australian hip-hop protagonist to make deep inroads into the US.
In his relatively short career, the 27-year-old has produced joints for a host of respected US artists – the likes of rap legend Pharoahe Monch, chart-topping RnB vocalist Amerie, Royce Da 5”9”, Kenn Starr, Skyzoo, Oddisee and Emilio Rojas included – and made a name as one of the international scene’s most esteemed young producers. On the home-front, meanwhile, he’s produced cuts for the likes of Bliss N Eso (with whom he won an ARIA for Flying Colours), Phrase, Drapht and a list of up-and-coming rapper too long to count.
With his much-anticipated all-Australian debut record Good Gracious out via domestic hip-hop powerhouse Obese Records and his album launch tour in progress, we spoke to Landon about giving back to the local scene and the real and perceived barriers between the Australian and US markets.
Hey Mark, how are you doing?
Good man. Just working away behind the computer before heading out on tour.
Yeah, I’m interested to see how this tour will work out. It’s a rare thing in Australia for a producer to drop a solo record, let alone tour it.
I guess so. There have been a couple of producer solo records. Like Jase had one out on Obese a few years ago and Plutonic Lab has put out a couple of projects, but the touring aspect of it is definitely a bit different. I think Chasm, from Sydney, did a few shows but I don’t know if he did a whole tour. So yeah, it’s a bit different.
I really enjoyed the record and reviewed it positively, but it was kind of interesting to me that it was so full of local rappers. There was an Australian rapper on virtually every track. Was this record always going to that way? I kind of expected more instrumentals and perhaps some US guests…
Right. Well, I went into the project with nothing but Australian artists in mind. That was kind of the goal I had and I wanted each song to have some kind of fullness to it and not leave too much room. I mean, you mentioned the instrumental aspect, but I really saw this album as a collaboration album, so to have any instrumentals on there wouldn’t have really made sense.
As far as the Australian aspect, it really was what I set out to do. The only exception on there are expats that currently live here, like Nine High and Haunts, who are from England but live here now, so they kind of made it through the filter. It was just sort of about giving back to the Australian scene and doing something different. I mean, it would have been easier for me to just go and get a bunch of international artists, but I think it was just more of a challenge to do it just with Australian artists because I really haven’t worked with that many.
Sure. I guess, there’s that classic scenario where so many Australian crews will go out of their way to try track down a few international guests…
Exactly, and I didn’t want that to be the drawcard. I wanted the music to be the drawcard and I feel like we have the standard of artists in Australian hip-hop where you should be able to hold an album in that regard, without having to ring in for international guests.
You’ve been one of the lead Australian artists to make inroads into the US scene. As someone who has made a bunch of beats for US artists and spent time there, has that really informed the way you think about the international market?
Sort of, I mean if I hadn’t already worked with so many American artists it might have swayed my decision on who to put on my album. Like, I might have gone for a bunch more international artists. I think I’ve reached a point in my career where working with guys from the States isn’t really going to change – I’m always going to be doing that – so for my debut album I just wanted to do something different that nobody would expect. I mean, I don’t think anybody expected an all-Aussie line-up on my album. Like I said earlier, I think we have the standard of artists that can really hold down a whole album. I didn’t feel like I needed to go out and get international collabs so people would buy my record.
At the same time, having that purely Australian presence and that lack of any instrumental tracks, it does really tie record to a specific time and place.
Yeah, I guess that was always going to be the case, being Australian hip-hop as opposed to Australian rock or something. If you put Jet on or someone in the States they won’t sound too different, but with Aussie hip-hop it’s a bit of a different thing. You can’t really mistake them. But I’ve got a lot of projects that I’m working on with international artists and I think for my next production album I might go for a bit more of an international sound, whether it is reaching out to international artists for guest spots or collaborating with a broader range of artists within Australia who aren’t necessarily from the hip-hop world. Like, I think I really want to do something different for my next album and not be tied down to hip-hop in general.
It’s interesting that you mention stepping outside of hip-hop, because on the record and a bunch of your more recent production work there has been a shift towards a more compositional dynamic. These aren’t just grooves or hooks anymore; these are track with a hell of a lot of layers and dynamics. Does that aesthetic kind of mirror how your approach has been evolving?
Definitely, for sure! I mean, my sound has sort of progressed from that of a typical hip-hop producer who used samples and pretty much looped everything from start to finish and didn’t have many change-ups in terms of key and chord progressions. I mean, it’s funny, I always kind of envisioned that I would be this hip-hop producer or this RnB producer who would do that. But I guess in the last couple of years – and I really accredit this to moving to Melbourne and being around such amazing musicians and producers – I actually have found myself shifting towards more of a songwriter/composition/live instrumentation sort of producer and that’s started to take a lot more of my interest than typical hip-hop production is.
I mean, it’s something that I’ll always find hard to escape from, that element of hip-hop in my production…
But that isn’t something that you should be necessarily trying to escape from.
No, no, sure. I’m not trying to escape from it, but I’d love to incorporate different types of musical production into my own style. So that’s what I’m trying to focus on at the moment.
It’s a really positive thing, in the same way that an older Melbourne producer like Plutonic Lab has been able to develop his sound to a point where he can drop a record like that Ivens album…
Yeah, yeah, which was this really kind of underground hip-hop record and then go and do the Jess Harlen record, this full-band soul record. And I think he’s working on a real soulful, sort of ’70s throwback, old 45” vinyl-sounding record with a band. Actually, I think it might just be him and someone else, but it sounds amazing. He played me some stuff when I was in his studio a while ago. But yeah, he’s a perfect example of where I’m heading. Not in the sense of similar styles, but just musicality.
I guess that’s what’s happened with that whole generation of guys we grew up listening to – like Q-Tip and Mos Def and Talib. They’re still making hip-hop but there’s just a more sophisticated musical element to it, whereas Australian hip-hop still really has the straight up and down, rugged aesthetic to it for the most part.
We’re behind on pretty much everything and there’s no exception for hip-hop. People have discovered this ’90s sound of New York and have decided they should try and mimic that, and it’s almost become a little too overbearing for me personally. Everyone who releases a song here, with the exception of a few, sounds like they’re still in the ’90s. I love ’90s hip-hop, don’t get me wrong, but I’d kind of like to leave that era back then. All these groups feel like they need to make that sort of hip-hop just to be real or whatever, but I just look at it as being a bit lazy in my opinion. If you’re not trying to innovate then it loses a lot of the excitement.
I mean, I’ll still make a track like that every now and again, but I don’t feel like that should be your only musical point of view.
Do you think that relative cultural isolation of growing up on the Gold Coast was crucial for you in terms of building your own style?
Definitely! That’s sort of what spurred me onto work with Americans and use their scene over there as my influence and my goal in terms of the way I looked at music. A lot of people in Melbourne, because there is such a thriving scene and it’s been like this for a few years now, people tend to just look to their peers and try and match what they’re doing, whereas I was forced to use the internet as a means of working with people - people in the States specifically - [and it] really sort of forced me to really look at what was happening over there, as the bar I had to reach.
As someone who’s done a lot of work in the US, do you feel that barrier between the Australia and the States is more a perceived one from an Australian perspective?
A lot of Aussie artists settle for what’s good over here, but what’s good over here isn’t even given the time of day over there. You can’t put a producer from Melbourne up against the Justice League or DJ Quick or DJ Premier, who were doing stuff that people are maybe just starting to touch on now 10 or 15 years ago. So I feel like a lot of Australian groups or producers or rappers just settle for being good on an Australian level and feel like they can’t exceed that and so they get engulfed in the local scene. I don’t really believe in that; I believe you should always strive to be on par with the rest of the world, you know.
It’s definitely not a resource or an access issue in the sense that you listen to what’s coming out of LA at the moment with Flying Lotus and that whole Low End Theory scene. There are kids like Shlohmo and Nosaj Thing, who are in their early twenties, with no cash, making amazing beats out of their bedrooms.
That’s exactly right. I mean, my set up is nothing. I’ve got a computer, a midi-keyboard and some speakers. I don’t have any crazy outboard gear. If people are saying that that’s the reason they can’t do this or can’t do that, it’s bullshit. There’s technology out there.
I mean, not to diss the Hilltop Hoods because I love the Hilltop Hoods and think they make great music, but they’re not going to get looked at in the same way as a big artist in the States. Their music isn’t going to stand up in that environment and neither are a lot of the big groups from over here, you know? And I don’t mean to diss anyone – I’m sure a lot of people will take that as a diss, but it’s not – it’s just that the production values are very basic and very thin-sounding compared to a lot of their US counterparts.
I agree entirely. You listen to a lot of this stuff and it doesn’t sound like an international release; it sound’s inherently Australian.
Exactly, like, you listen to something like Jet and that sounds like they could have been from anywhere, but there’s just something with hip-hop in this country where we can’t seem to break free from that Aussie sound. I think maybe the closest to doing it in a major scale is Bliss N Eso and that’s probably because Bliss has an American accent (laughs). But no, it’s the sonics that give it its life; the way it just blasts you in the eardrum. A lot of Aussies don’t quite get that sound and they don’t take the time to try and master that.
Dan Rule
Good Gracious is out via Obese
mphazes.com](http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l74rdqYJUB1qa3c8ao1_500.jpg)
INTERVIEW - M-PHAZES
Published: The Vine, August 11, 2010.
Melbourne-based producer Mark Landon (aka M-Phazes) is a rarity in the Australian hip-hop scene. While slow to be recognised in his home country, the Gold Coast-raised beatsmith has risen to become the first Australian hip-hop protagonist to make deep inroads into the US.
In his relatively short career, the 27-year-old has produced joints for a host of respected US artists – the likes of rap legend Pharoahe Monch, chart-topping RnB vocalist Amerie, Royce Da 5”9”, Kenn Starr, Skyzoo, Oddisee and Emilio Rojas included – and made a name as one of the international scene’s most esteemed young producers. On the home-front, meanwhile, he’s produced cuts for the likes of Bliss N Eso (with whom he won an ARIA for Flying Colours), Phrase, Drapht and a list of up-and-coming rapper too long to count.
With his much-anticipated all-Australian debut record Good Gracious out via domestic hip-hop powerhouse Obese Records and his album launch tour in progress, we spoke to Landon about giving back to the local scene and the real and perceived barriers between the Australian and US markets.
Hey Mark, how are you doing?
Good man. Just working away behind the computer before heading out on tour.
Yeah, I’m interested to see how this tour will work out. It’s a rare thing in Australia for a producer to drop a solo record, let alone tour it.
I guess so. There have been a couple of producer solo records. Like Jase had one out on Obese a few years ago and Plutonic Lab has put out a couple of projects, but the touring aspect of it is definitely a bit different. I think Chasm, from Sydney, did a few shows but I don’t know if he did a whole tour. So yeah, it’s a bit different.
I really enjoyed the record and reviewed it positively, but it was kind of interesting to me that it was so full of local rappers. There was an Australian rapper on virtually every track. Was this record always going to that way? I kind of expected more instrumentals and perhaps some US guests…
Right. Well, I went into the project with nothing but Australian artists in mind. That was kind of the goal I had and I wanted each song to have some kind of fullness to it and not leave too much room. I mean, you mentioned the instrumental aspect, but I really saw this album as a collaboration album, so to have any instrumentals on there wouldn’t have really made sense.
As far as the Australian aspect, it really was what I set out to do. The only exception on there are expats that currently live here, like Nine High and Haunts, who are from England but live here now, so they kind of made it through the filter. It was just sort of about giving back to the Australian scene and doing something different. I mean, it would have been easier for me to just go and get a bunch of international artists, but I think it was just more of a challenge to do it just with Australian artists because I really haven’t worked with that many.
Sure. I guess, there’s that classic scenario where so many Australian crews will go out of their way to try track down a few international guests…
Exactly, and I didn’t want that to be the drawcard. I wanted the music to be the drawcard and I feel like we have the standard of artists in Australian hip-hop where you should be able to hold an album in that regard, without having to ring in for international guests.
You’ve been one of the lead Australian artists to make inroads into the US scene. As someone who has made a bunch of beats for US artists and spent time there, has that really informed the way you think about the international market?
Sort of, I mean if I hadn’t already worked with so many American artists it might have swayed my decision on who to put on my album. Like, I might have gone for a bunch more international artists. I think I’ve reached a point in my career where working with guys from the States isn’t really going to change – I’m always going to be doing that – so for my debut album I just wanted to do something different that nobody would expect. I mean, I don’t think anybody expected an all-Aussie line-up on my album. Like I said earlier, I think we have the standard of artists that can really hold down a whole album. I didn’t feel like I needed to go out and get international collabs so people would buy my record.
At the same time, having that purely Australian presence and that lack of any instrumental tracks, it does really tie record to a specific time and place.
Yeah, I guess that was always going to be the case, being Australian hip-hop as opposed to Australian rock or something. If you put Jet on or someone in the States they won’t sound too different, but with Aussie hip-hop it’s a bit of a different thing. You can’t really mistake them. But I’ve got a lot of projects that I’m working on with international artists and I think for my next production album I might go for a bit more of an international sound, whether it is reaching out to international artists for guest spots or collaborating with a broader range of artists within Australia who aren’t necessarily from the hip-hop world. Like, I think I really want to do something different for my next album and not be tied down to hip-hop in general.
It’s interesting that you mention stepping outside of hip-hop, because on the record and a bunch of your more recent production work there has been a shift towards a more compositional dynamic. These aren’t just grooves or hooks anymore; these are track with a hell of a lot of layers and dynamics. Does that aesthetic kind of mirror how your approach has been evolving?
Definitely, for sure! I mean, my sound has sort of progressed from that of a typical hip-hop producer who used samples and pretty much looped everything from start to finish and didn’t have many change-ups in terms of key and chord progressions. I mean, it’s funny, I always kind of envisioned that I would be this hip-hop producer or this RnB producer who would do that. But I guess in the last couple of years – and I really accredit this to moving to Melbourne and being around such amazing musicians and producers – I actually have found myself shifting towards more of a songwriter/composition/live instrumentation sort of producer and that’s started to take a lot more of my interest than typical hip-hop production is.
I mean, it’s something that I’ll always find hard to escape from, that element of hip-hop in my production…
But that isn’t something that you should be necessarily trying to escape from.
No, no, sure. I’m not trying to escape from it, but I’d love to incorporate different types of musical production into my own style. So that’s what I’m trying to focus on at the moment.
It’s a really positive thing, in the same way that an older Melbourne producer like Plutonic Lab has been able to develop his sound to a point where he can drop a record like that Ivens album…
Yeah, yeah, which was this really kind of underground hip-hop record and then go and do the Jess Harlen record, this full-band soul record. And I think he’s working on a real soulful, sort of ’70s throwback, old 45” vinyl-sounding record with a band. Actually, I think it might just be him and someone else, but it sounds amazing. He played me some stuff when I was in his studio a while ago. But yeah, he’s a perfect example of where I’m heading. Not in the sense of similar styles, but just musicality.
I guess that’s what’s happened with that whole generation of guys we grew up listening to – like Q-Tip and Mos Def and Talib. They’re still making hip-hop but there’s just a more sophisticated musical element to it, whereas Australian hip-hop still really has the straight up and down, rugged aesthetic to it for the most part.
We’re behind on pretty much everything and there’s no exception for hip-hop. People have discovered this ’90s sound of New York and have decided they should try and mimic that, and it’s almost become a little too overbearing for me personally. Everyone who releases a song here, with the exception of a few, sounds like they’re still in the ’90s. I love ’90s hip-hop, don’t get me wrong, but I’d kind of like to leave that era back then. All these groups feel like they need to make that sort of hip-hop just to be real or whatever, but I just look at it as being a bit lazy in my opinion. If you’re not trying to innovate then it loses a lot of the excitement.
I mean, I’ll still make a track like that every now and again, but I don’t feel like that should be your only musical point of view.
Do you think that relative cultural isolation of growing up on the Gold Coast was crucial for you in terms of building your own style?
Definitely! That’s sort of what spurred me onto work with Americans and use their scene over there as my influence and my goal in terms of the way I looked at music. A lot of people in Melbourne, because there is such a thriving scene and it’s been like this for a few years now, people tend to just look to their peers and try and match what they’re doing, whereas I was forced to use the internet as a means of working with people - people in the States specifically - [and it] really sort of forced me to really look at what was happening over there, as the bar I had to reach.
As someone who’s done a lot of work in the US, do you feel that barrier between the Australia and the States is more a perceived one from an Australian perspective?
A lot of Aussie artists settle for what’s good over here, but what’s good over here isn’t even given the time of day over there. You can’t put a producer from Melbourne up against the Justice League or DJ Quick or DJ Premier, who were doing stuff that people are maybe just starting to touch on now 10 or 15 years ago. So I feel like a lot of Australian groups or producers or rappers just settle for being good on an Australian level and feel like they can’t exceed that and so they get engulfed in the local scene. I don’t really believe in that; I believe you should always strive to be on par with the rest of the world, you know.
It’s definitely not a resource or an access issue in the sense that you listen to what’s coming out of LA at the moment with Flying Lotus and that whole Low End Theory scene. There are kids like Shlohmo and Nosaj Thing, who are in their early twenties, with no cash, making amazing beats out of their bedrooms.
That’s exactly right. I mean, my set up is nothing. I’ve got a computer, a midi-keyboard and some speakers. I don’t have any crazy outboard gear. If people are saying that that’s the reason they can’t do this or can’t do that, it’s bullshit. There’s technology out there.
I mean, not to diss the Hilltop Hoods because I love the Hilltop Hoods and think they make great music, but they’re not going to get looked at in the same way as a big artist in the States. Their music isn’t going to stand up in that environment and neither are a lot of the big groups from over here, you know? And I don’t mean to diss anyone – I’m sure a lot of people will take that as a diss, but it’s not – it’s just that the production values are very basic and very thin-sounding compared to a lot of their US counterparts.
I agree entirely. You listen to a lot of this stuff and it doesn’t sound like an international release; it sound’s inherently Australian.
Exactly, like, you listen to something like Jet and that sounds like they could have been from anywhere, but there’s just something with hip-hop in this country where we can’t seem to break free from that Aussie sound. I think maybe the closest to doing it in a major scale is Bliss N Eso and that’s probably because Bliss has an American accent (laughs). But no, it’s the sonics that give it its life; the way it just blasts you in the eardrum. A lot of Aussies don’t quite get that sound and they don’t take the time to try and master that.
Dan Rule
Good Gracious is out via Obese
mphazes.com
